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Hahn debunking the Ernst misinformation. The credibility of Newton is the evidence and analysis. The credibility of Hahn is the analysis and the deconstruction of the Ernst bias.
The agenda of SAS show lack of any rational argument. The libels of Ernst is very big. Childs as Alan Henness are very funny for me. What is in error in his article? The ethos of the article is hugely biased in its jeering at acupuncture and only presenting a highly negative view of a system of medicine that has served literally millions of people over thousands of years.
More likely there is something of value in it. My main point in my first comment is that I was disappointed that the Spectator gave someone such as Ernst space for an opinionated, snide article. In this respect credentials are a factor to be considered.
Do you want qualifications? I am a Board Certified naturopath. I am a Board Certified nutritionist. I am a Board Certified homeopath. These are all completely true. I know jack squat about medicine. Do you think you need an education to become any of those?
I had to do absolutely NO studying to become a naturopath. It is not a protected term in most parts of the U. Those designations are a way for people with zero education in medicine or an education in BS to parade around and pretend they are real doctors. Since attacking the evidence is not possible, the attack shifts to the person. Mmmm…there are proper certifications and pseudo ones. I think he is biased against CAM and this is EVIDENCED by the fact that he knew or suspected that acupuncture could work independent of the placebo effect in some conditions but conveniently preferred to keep that knowledge out of the article above because it did not suit the ethos of the article.
Is this comment ad hominem. Yes, I too am biased against CAM. I list my real, but clearly worthless qualifications, as a way to argue from the same level of authority as some other commenters. I never hide the fact that my qualifications in medicine are near nil. Are my actions in this regard ad hominem attacks? But when someone who is a naturopath or homeopath climbs on a pedestal to try to argue from authority, I like to make it cleat that that step up to the pedestal is only a millimeter.
I always try, but sometimes fail, to keep a civil tongue. Insults only make the other person dig in their heels. My background is finance with top skills in situational modeling and database analysis best track record in the industry in a few specific areas.
These skills DO cross over both ways. I am a scientist. I care about the science. I care about the data. I care about how the data are interpreted. I care about the controls used. I care about how studies diminish or fail to diminish biases. I care about plausibility. I think of all of the things I learned about Finance at University and how wrong they were and wonder why they are still being taught today.
Bias and pseudoscience are a bigger problem, in my opinion, in business than in medicine. What I do and believe has changed immensely since leaving school 25 years ago. As I accumulate more data, analyze the data, have peers tear apart my findings, have others point out my biases, and have others check my math, my opinions on subjects change.
This actually a good question from you. Nobody has ever asked for these details before. My certifications were approved unanimously by the Board. Is the Board real? I even have the minutes. Is this certification real? Is this absolutely stupid and worthless? In many cases, such as this, it means diddly.
What I have done is what many organizations do. I, on the other hand, am not hiding anything. Actually, you look as clueless as the other bizarre window-lickers on here, and I suggest, borderline deranged. It means nothing in the UK. You make claims but provide nothing for anyone reading to establish if they are true or not. The Boiron certificate is not official. Please, your straw man fallacies are very funny.
You would dismiss his article because of this? You realise that this is literally ad hominem, right? Yeah… credibility is in the eye of the beholder. Edzard has a very good and well respected track record. Within his field and a number of others he is a credible authority on these topics though. There is a person with a credibility issue. From the scientific community point of view though, I guess h-index would be a way to gauge that.
Lets give it a go…. Install that if you want to run this check yourself. Hitting Google Scholar with the extension installed search for the following, wait for it do its thing and we get the data. I am not accusing you — I am just stating the fact: I never said that I had formal qualifications in acupuncture or homeopathy.
I learnt these things as doctors learn most other techniques: I once wrote as a footnote to a critical article on homeopathy: Only a moron could miss that this was tongue in cheek.
Moreover, it was correct: I was trained during several months working in a homeopathic hospital. It seems that this is the origin of all these false allegations against me. To accuse me of having no qualifications in these areas is, I think, akin to me accusing you of having no degree in particle physics.
You are not and were not a registered medical doctor in the UK at the time but were a professor of Complementary Medicine. You do not have formal qualifications or certification in homeopathy or any form of complementary medicine — despite these being available in Germany, the country where I assume you did have medical qualifications fact or ad hominem attack?
You have been accused of bias in a major article by a high ranking orthodox physician and medical scientist fact or ad hominem attack? Those who want to read about him should read this blog post [http: Robert Hahn is one of the best examples I have come across that illustrate such incredible cognitive contradictions in one person.
Hahn we have on one side a renowned, productive and genuine I am told by my intensivist colleagues scholar in the extremely significant and heavily science-dependent field of intravenous fluid therapy and on the other an ardent spiritualist and proponent of alternative therapies in general and homeopathy in particular.
Well, nothing wrong with being either-or, but this practically schizophrenic combination of contradictory qualities in one person defies reason. Talking of reason, Dr. Hahn has an interesting take on the relationship of reason and science. Perhaps the best illustration of his confused views is illustrated in a comment-dialog in english following a blog post by Michael Eriksson, a Swedish computer scientist living in Germany.
There, the two exchange views on this matter: As I said, quite a curious case. Perhaps a variant of the Nobel disease? The question is — should we believe in scientific data or should we believe is them only if you can accept them by reason? The risk is very great that reason provided by an outsider is completely wrong.
Thank you for clarifying the doctor issue. All this does not detract from my view that you are biased against CAM, know that some of it really works, but choose to aim for fame and fortune by trashing it. Changed your mind since then? In the above article, I wrote: Yes of course I know acupuncture begins with an a and that is why it topped the table.
Does the article above resonate with that statement? Good for branding — less so for intellectual and academic honesty. This is transparent as polished glass to me and you are not going to get out of it — no matter what your minions continue to bleat here.
I did not think this needed a reply: How about you challenge the points in the article rather than dismissing it because of who the author is? You are literally demonstrating ad hominem right now. So… Still not addressing the actual content of the article? Your tone already suggests that.
Asking you to actually address the article rather than the author is considered an attack? Yeah, I read that already. You keep posting it but all it has is conjecture and whining. Nothing to actually create a valid case for what it claims. Wow, John Maddox prize. Could you explain me your the wrong sentences of your friend Robert Grimmes? Homeopathy is not a plausible system of treatment, as its dogmas about how drugs, illness, the human body, liquids and solutions operate are contradicted by a wide range of discoveries across biology, psychology, physics and chemistry made in the two centuries since its invention.
The meta study of Shang — Is a clinical paper, not physics. Wrong 2, Ernst, Edzard December Skeptical Inquirer 36 6. Retrieved 12 October Focus on Alternative and Complementary Therapies 17 3: Essentially, for this proposed mechanism to work water must be able to maintain bonds in the absence of the original agent and this bond must be long lived.
There have been many physical investigations to ascertain how long water can hold the memory of a bond, and these have shown the time to be exceptionally short and difficult to measure, with results no more than fractions of a nano-second 10 -9 s.
The most convincing experiments were conducted by Cowan et al. Cowan paper is not evidence against to the memory of water. The Cowan paper is correct, but the scale of memory water is not individual water molecules. Grimmes arguments are very reductionists.. Homeopathy claims that higher dilutions lead to higher potency, whereas Montagnier et al.
This is the opposite of what homeopathy predicts. Homeopathy never claims a linear response. This stupidity is a common misunderstanding of pseudoskeptiks. The classic sentence of higher dilutions lead to higher potency is an abstraction. In the practice, the low potency is very useful with some conditions. In the case of Montaigner works he never proves the ultramolecular dilutions i. As an explain Demangeat:. The findings suggested the existence of superstructures that originate stereospecifically around the solute after an initial destructuring of the solvent, developing more upon dilution and persisting beyond 12c.
We found that absorbance of ac30c verum globules was higher than that of placebo globules and absorbance of cq6x verum globules was lower than that of placebo globules. These findings are not contradictory , since previous experiments with aqueous homeopathic preparations showed wavelike patterns of higher and lower absorbance among different steps of dilution, i.
Future research in this area […homeopathy…] should be more rigorous and readers of biased research papers should apply appropriately critical assessments. Can anyone see how this is a contradiction? Complementary treatment of varicose veins — a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial published in Phlebology:. The aim of this study was to test the effectiveness of a combined homeopathic medication in primary varicosity […] In conclusion, our results suggest that this randomized, double-blind, controlled trial demonstrates that a combined homoeopathic medication is effective in treating the symptoms and signs of primary varicose veins.
Homeopathic Galphimia glauca for hay fever: In conclusion, three of the four currently available placebo-controlled RCTs of homeopathic GG suggest this therapy is an effective symptomatic treatment for hay fever. There are, however, important caveats. The meta-analysis 3 had numerous flaws and inconsistencies that need to be noted. For instance, the analysis included retrospective studies and unpublished trials. One of the authors was also an author on all four primary studies of GG, and another author of the analysis was co-author of one of the studies.
Please, feel to share the meta analysis of S. My petition start now. I could agree with you if you were to look at the table with an emotional or irrational bias that causes you to glom onto some desperate hope of validation.
A thing that may work in about a third of the population that has no reliable way to identify if any given individual is susceptible. A ritual designed to mimic going through a course of treatment that actually does nothing.
Why must acupuncture prove its superiority to conventional therapies? Surely proving that it is superior to placebo is enough; after all that is the test expected of new drugs.
Considering that there have not been systematic reviews or metaanalyses done on the use of acupuncture in treating every one of the thousands of conditions affecting the human animal, a slight exaggeration or wilful misrepresentation of the facts The consistent finding among papers cited by the Cochrane Review re: Contrary to what some of us may try to misrepresent to the public, this does not mean that there is no evidence of efficacy.
It merely means that we await properly designed, randomised clinical trials before a definitive statement can be made re: On one hand you state quite clearly and correctly, that there are many different varieties of acupuncture and that as a result generalisation is difficult; on the other, you seem happy to generalise.
A slightly confusing contradiction. I refer you the Cochrane Library, the highest level of evidence when it comes to interventions:. Acupuncture has found to be of benefit via systematic review in dysmenorrhoea http: I think I prefer the intellectual rigour and relative lack of bias of the Cochrane Library, to an obvious exercise in biased sensationalism.
Only for establishing that there is a real effect. Leave the medicine to the medics. That would be because you are attacking the man rather than the article. You are consistantly being pulled up on that and refusing to actually do so. Stop being a dick. Address the article rather than the author. I notice that edzardernst: Even if it were true that Ernst did not have any qualifications in CAM, that in no way whatsoever invalidates his presentation of the evidence in this article.
Wow, men, this mean a one thing: Hey Pharmaguy, remember me? Let my explain bad guy:. The professional training in homeopathy is not a sample of course in six months.
The trained in homeopathy is a full requisite. If some remedies are extreme homeopathic dilutions and if this remedies is highly implasuble to elicit any biological response. Why extreme homeopathic dilutions can cause direct harms in only four dead people? If this true, this is a pseduo homeopathic remedies. But, in another letter:.
A mother tincture of arsenic, for example, is pure arsenic and thus highly poisonous; yet it would technically be a homeopathic remedy. You read like a petulant child with something to pout over. Simon Sigh is the same of the Nighgale Collaboration.
Allan Henness and Ms. Wow, need more evidence? And the Nightingale Collaboration does good works. This is a cleary evidence of the agenda behind of Alan Henness. Mexican cartels show your public actitivities in videos on streets and web beheading, corruption with the State, extortion.
Randi is the first piece of behind this legal game. If you want to make accusations against homeopathy, you provide your evidence. Ah… the evidence against homeopathy is well established and accepted within credible medical research. Feel free to share your definitive and conclusive evidence against homeopathy. And only a few weeks ago a leading manufacturer of painkillers was on front pages across Europe for the absurd way it was describing and marketing its products.
I am a liberal and have nothing to do with American libertarianism, Alex Jones, anti-vaccination activists or colloidal silver. Good point about cough mixtures. Yes it is a huge racket and nobody says much of its inane TV ads and publicity. That is not to say that Big Pharma does not good — it does. However it has to keep an eye on the money. Am, the head of acupuncture department at the local hospital is over 50, and he is an international authority on acupuncture.
Anybody who wants to be certified as an acupuncturist can do so, no age restrictions. So stop the BS about no one over 50 has a qualification…. I think you misread my comment, which begins: The original commenter was demanding, absurdly, that Prof Ernst possess a qualification in evidence-based medicine before talking about it.
What a spectacularly ignorant and stupid comment. This thoroughly charming and impressive man was awarded a professorship at the University of Beijing — for his quality of research and teaching:. I supplied the answer. Evidence-based medicine EBM is the process of systematically reviewing, appraising and using clinical research findings to aid the delivery of optimum clinical care to patients.
That even applies to conventional medicine. That is a direct quotation. I pointed out that such qualifications did not exist when he was studying. All this is true. I said nothing about qualifications in CAM. It would have been civilised to acknowledge your mistake at this point and apologise. But no, you attacked again. And then you — rather bizarrely — define what evidence-based medicine is, as if that disproves my point.
I mean, how much satisfaction is it possible to get out viciously attack and mocking people who claim to have benefited from this and other forms of therapy where you have haunted those pages? You might learn something. Because of your poor reading comprehension skills. Anyone reading this thread would understand that. As for the question of why, for me personally I do it to point out the actual position of the supporters of CAM.
Much better to go off to a homeopath or an acupuncturist. Conventional medicine routinely cures these conditions. One doctor making a catastrophic mistake with diamorphine does not invalidate proven science. Would you prefer doctors not to use diamorphine, the best painkiller in the armamentarium? Your position is completely incoherent. You did manifestly misunderstand my point, hence linking to an entirely irrelevant article about an acupuncturist with a degree.
Your failure to acknowledge the fact is entirely in keeping with the bitter and unpleasant tone of all your contributions to this discussion. Looks like I struck a nerve — and the post continues to reveal the true childishness of your response…. Seriously pathetic — are you 13 years old? At which point, on the sage advice of Mark Twain. I guess I could agree with that point. He already needs a neurologist. His posts are getting more and more unhinged at a surprisingly steady pace.
How our perception of reality is constructed by the brain. Or at least to better explain what is more likely to be real. Libertarian, your post is the logical fallacy of appeal to authority, in this case within the reverse form.
Since you question the authors competence you obviously can not refute the arguments themselves. That in turn puts you yourself in the position of lack of qualification. According to the Kruger Dunnings effect you are not able to judge Prof. Acupuncture sure seems to be popping up quite a bit lately. If you want a clear, detailed book about the placebo effect, it is probably the best book on the subject there is.
Acupuncture is the most covered CAM modality examined in the book. Anyone who is involved with medical studies, database analysis, critical thinking, or any subject where biases can affect the outcome needs to read this book. The writer tries to gain authority through his many years of experience as a doctor, but he fails to list a single condition for which he has used acupuncture.
As he said, for most conditions acupuncture may be ineffective, but what about those that it is effective for, like back pain? Back pain is one of leading causes of doctor visits and missed work in the developed world, and acupuncture is effective for it. So this whole article is worthless junk when you factor this in… acupuncture is effective for most people who try it, period. Factor what in, appeal to popularity? Get the details about what is really happening. Both real and sham acupuncture are more effective for back pain than conventional therapy and placebo, according to studies.
Look at the three groupings in the study. Where is the control group that received no treatment? If it works better than conventional therapy, it works better than placebo and no treatment. Where do get that from this study? Can you provide a link to the study? But that was over eight years ago and is just one study: As far as what does the totality of good evidence say, read the latest reviews and post links here if you want to discuss them.
If you want to continue asking questions without doing any research, I will not be able to comment any further. You make a claim; you provide the evidence. You say you have it — please provide a link to it so we can all look at it. What happen with your gangster wife? I really hope that english is a second language for Egger. If not, they really need to finish Kindy. Is Maria Maclahan a product of my imagination? CEO from Center for Inquiry. Totality of good evidence in favor of acupuncture as being helpful with pain.
Amongst several other things. And there is an overwhelming weight of anecdotal evidence out there, but discussing it with you is rather pointless, and your spouse will doubtless be along in the next few minute to hurl school-playground abuse. It is the case, as we can see from the sustained stupidity of many posts here, the ones claiming scientific knowledge are hilarious. Links are as kryptonite to Superman as far as Henness is concerned. Thanks for the link to the Nightingale Collaboration.
This is one more worthwhile cause for my donations. Our complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority about the claims made for acupuncture by the Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine was upheld in full. Read the full adjudication here:. Here are the rules. How do I bend them without breaking them? Bad science and bad ethics combined for profit? And yes, Steve, it can also happen in the world of real medicine too.
They may have changed their rules and are more open now. However, the advertiser would be aware of the conclusions of the expert and would have a chance to counter anything they disagreed with — but they still lost.
You guys do great work. Yeah like awesome man! You and Sense About Science do such altruistic work for people less intelligent, less informed and less scientific than yourselves. Keep up the philanthropism boys! Keep up the good working in using double standards in examining evidence for CAM. The double standards are usually on the part of the regulators, eg the MHRA for allowing homeopathy products to be sold with no evidence of efficacy provided. Why not send him a few bucks?
Yeah, you got me. I do however donate occasionally to Sense About Science which is the charitable organisation that funds the Nightingale Collaboration. Thank you very much for posting those links which are informative and hopefully will be read by some of the commentators here.
Objectively Edzard Ernst has done very well for himself and he can hardly be BLAMED for the scandal of a university appointing him as a professor and a journal such as The Spectator giving him space for an article such as this.
This article is essentially anti-acupuncture and anti-CAM propaganda. Another article with the same facts could have focused on how exactly acupuncture DID achieve results over placebo in certain conditions. Surely this is of note? You actually seemed to double down on the attacks on Edzard which detracts from your claim too.
I am staggered by the fact this article follows on from the one on chiropractic a while ago, both by the same author, and seemingly, attracting the same bizarre creatures. They are utterly impervious to reason and rationale, and exhibit the classic forum behaviour of tr0lls. My wife swears by chirproactic, and visits every 6 months for maintenance.
It was amazingly effective, and astonished my GP. I found later that friends were also both patients, one had tremendous relief from cystitis. My sisters neighbour in Coventry told of a guy who was a UK-known naturopath in the city Shaw? Some more reading, if you missed it:. Link3 — not a great one. The improvements in all primary and secondary outcome measures were significant and lasted long after completion of treatment.
And Haake et al. The acupuncturist in the study must have been really good. Are you reviewing evidence of a possibly effective modality that warrants more exploration and use to benefit medicine, or are you continuing to tease out your criticisms? What does it say about a treatment when it cannot show superior benefit over a sham version of that therapy?
It says that TCM theory, and the points that are recommended, have nothing to do with the way acupuncture works. It also says that sham acupuncture, and more specifically stimulation of other points, IS an effective treatment for pain. Well, primarily, it says the entire theoretical basis of acupuncture is false and should be abandoned.
Inserting needles has no benefit over poking someone with a stick. Why do we not see acupuncturists abandoning their theoretical framework and getting out a stick to prod people with?
Yes, this stupid practice that the Chinese have been using for 4, years, and without the need for charlatan pseudo-scientists like Ernst, and his bizarre and ludicrous acolytes. But that is a myth. The Chinese have not been using it for 4, years. Nothing that resembles modern post-Mao acupuncture. And in any case, what if it had been around for years? In what way does this validate a pre-scientific belief system?
Science has failed us in so many ways, especially relative to healing. Have the courage to think and express an original thought, not just parrot what a scientist will tell you in 5 years was an incorrect theory or flawed research.
The Iceman had tattoos. These are not acupuncture points. You say these things, as if you know anything about TCM, where is your degree from?
Degrees in acupuncture are like degrees in unicorn studies. You will have spent many hours memorising things but in the end you know nothing because unicorns do not exist. Knowledge is justified true belief. Acupuncture cannot be justified.
It cannot demonstrate its claims to be true. If you have studies acupuncture then you have wasted your life. Prominent is being able to argue that healthcare is contentious and how to set up your own clinic. There is no consistent, replicated, positive evidence base for any condition to be treated by acupuncture. What there is a swarm of small, poorly conducted and sometimes fraudulent researched whose goal os only to promote acupuncture. China produces the most research. It is almost exclusively positive.
No Ron, I do not think that being a successful pig farmer qualifies him to give advice regarding vaccination, I would say the same thing about Trump, yes he is a billionaire and without question a smart business man, but that does not qualify him with regards to vaccination.
Just where does he give advice regarding vaccinations? Ok Ron, you are right that the pig farmer does not dish out the advice himself BUT the fact that he allows dubious papers and advice to be published on his site gives the impression that he supports what is published on his site.
Your attempt at praising a site that promotes the nonsense that we are ruled by reptilian overlords is quite comical. Do you agree with every book in a library? And how high would than number be if medicine was based on the unscientific nonsense that is homeopathy?
Make up your mind. Homeopathy will kill people because it is ineffective in situations where real medicine could save a life. I could also save people by keeping them away from pharmaceutical drugs, which has killed way more people than homeopathy. Nobody takes this stuff seriously anyway.
You would need to normalize that number by the number of people treated and positive outcomes. Real medicine comes out on top. Unfortunately there are still people who take homeopathy seriously. See everyone how easily these shills brush aside a number as high as , per year. And those are ONLY the numbers they admit too. Now if anyone would die because they were treated by any other modality other than allopathy they would see to it that it made all the news media.
I will fight them to my dying breath. I am not brushing anything aside, I am giving context to the number. Finding an independent scientists is like trying to find an honest politician or someone who would be willing to compete with the mob in the heart of their territory. But the truth is coming out people are waking up and the sheep are turning into lions.
All Ron is saying is that anybody who shows that vaccines are safe and effective and that homeopathy is a scam must be dishonest. At this point, Ron Roy, curiosity compels me to ask if there is any possible evidence that would convince you to change your mind? Real greenies oppose GMOs vaccines and most, if not all, pharmaceuticals. It is a difficult concept for you but you can support a greener environment without being an idiot over GMOs, vaccines, medicine, nuclear power etc etc.
Yes they are, so what? Their commonality also includes being unable to face facts, just like you. Could it be that they have done their homework and that there was only one true conclusion to be arrived at? None of my Sierra Club friends are against vaccines. Not all of them are against GMOs or nuclear power.
Then your friends are not in tune with those organizations: Thanks, I actually appreciated reading that. But what I meant is 1. Does that make sense now? Ron,I thought I was a robot!? Thanks for letting me know that I am a person. Do you use your psychic powers to know what all other environmentalists think? Or is it like homeopathy where the more diluted your knowledge the smarter you are? Many if not most hikers ARE environmentalist and being a former avid hiker I met and spoke to a large number of hikers.
I hope that answers your question. Did you notice that non-scientists who are environmentalists had some differences of opinion from environmentalists who were professional scientists? You know what, the most effective greenies are people who understand and can apply science to their decisions.
I only know a couple of environmentalists who oppose vaccines and modern medicine. You need to expand your circle of friends. Then these greenies had better brush up on their science: Ron Roy is a troll. Virtually everything he posts has been refuted dozens of times.
Are my suspicions wrong? No need to prove the obvious. Wait let me ask my daughter……….. Yep she agrees with me. My daughter would but unlike most of you she is not retired and she does have a busy life. If she did have time you would find her not quite as polite as I am. She will be speaking out against vaccines when she becomes a teacher.
What evidence does your daughter have that the vaccine made your grandson autistic? By all means keep it up. I love her desire to inform people of the hazards of vaccines. Learn to use a thesaurus.
These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively. Are you angry or not angry that the CDC scientists are all accusing their own agency of deep rooted fraud and corporate influence dictating their policies?
You have never proven a single thing. Oh I understand that unless that proof favors vaccines. Looks like the computer generated upvotes went haywire or someone forgot to stop the upvotes at a reasonable level. I suspect some profiles are simply computer generated profiles bots.
These studies are published in journals of conventional medicine which are financially supported by drug companies. Some studies of homeopathic medicines have been conducted by people who began the study with bias. Some were conducted by people without even the basic knowledge of homeopathy. These types of studies were bound to fail, and they did. Far more show that homeopathy works and works beyond placebo.
On top of that its curative where conventional medicine fails. These cases are documented by objective test results including CT scans, x-rays, blood work and histopathological reports………. Permit me to help you here, Gold. I am really eager to read the studies you are talking about.
Could you please share links? There are several trials there on drugs. They receive payment from drug companies for the trials they conduct not to mention the fact that their entire research program is funded by grants from big pharma. Not really independent trials are they? RGM, how would you propose funding for trials be done?
What sort of funding process would be needed for you to accept a trial as being uninfluenced by the ultimate funding source? Instead you changed your position to what is another false claim: No, RGM has claimed that first, all clinical trials were performed by drugs companies, which was blatantly false. Then, RGM claimed that all clinical trials were funded by drug companies. Because science is hard.
Most research is wrong, duh. Well there you have it, who needs evidence when a person with a fake name in a forum says it works. And wow, hilarious… Ya, its so evil that drug companies actually research their drugs, having to spend their money to do the research! At least they do research, unlike the fake studies run by some homeopaths that are so often intentionally unblocked and uncontrolled.
Whenever their tests are properly blinded homeopathy fails. My dear Ken Lord: Studies of homeopathy have been published in many major journals of conventional medicine. Notice how the homeopath focused on my obvious typo unblocked should have been unblinded, and has now been corrected instead of actually dealing with the point I made.
But the most ironic part is that homeopaths do everything that he accuses actual scientists of doing. Homeopathic remedy makers pay for their studies, they start with severe bias, they design studies that maintain their bias instead of minimizing it, and to ensure the studies work, they rarely attempt to properly blind the studies.
But seriously, it depends on the dilution. IIRC, some homeopathic manufacturers got in trouble over their belladonna teething tablets containing…. Nelsons got into trouble because their machinery that put a drop of the pure water into the vials of sugar pills was missing one in six vials.
You say all this like homeopathy is not big business. The profits alone from selling water and sugar pills is off the charts. Are you going to try and tell us there are no paid shills? Sorry, in which country do you live where useful medical modalities are offered for free and no-one pays anything for them? Everything is a business. Homeopathy is a minnow compared to the whale of Allopathic pharmacy but more importantly, it cures without killing and injuring.
Hahaha then he says homeopathy us cheap! For products that are indistinguishable from water and sugar, that cost far far more than water and sugar, while having no measurable benefit beyond placebo.
But the highest cost of homeopathy is the time it steals away from people where they could be getting evidence based treatments that could actually help… Just ask Steve Jobs about this.
Because he delayed proper treatment for 9 months to use homeopathy, letting his cancer progress until it killed him. Then you have the other kind of homeopath. These will pretend to be able to treat anything from malaria to cancer with nothing. First, there is no reason to suppose ot should work. Like does not cure like, symptomatic similarity is not a basis of cure.
No credible evidence has ever been provided to show that symptomatic similarity is curative in any way. Second, there is no way it can work.
Homeopathic theory is a walled garden with no links to the real world. Third, there is no proof it does work. There is independently authenticated case where homeopathy has been objectively shown to have cured anybody of anything, ever. All studies are consistent with the null hypothesis. So, no reason to suppose it should work, no way it can work, and no proof it does work.
The universe has a long history of failing to back belief, however sincere. Since Allopathic drugs are the major killer, iatrogenic number three on the kill list, Edzard Ernst seems to draw a long and prejudiced bow about other medical modalities. The correct answer is because the theories about Homeopathy are implausible in terms of the current level of scientific knowledge, although, strictly speaking, as an objective system of enquiry, nothing is implausible for science, surely. Neither can something fly in the face of science since science is simply a method of enquiry at a particular point in its evolution.
Science said Acupuncture was implausible but as science developed it discovered it was wrong. Quantum Mechanics when first mooted was implausible. This is patently untrue because, if it were true, not one MD, hospital, medical school, university or Government State health system would touch Homeopathy and many do.
Clearly they have the good evidence you have missed. If one considered what is called the totality of the evidence then Allopathic medicine would be banned because of its high kill and injure rate. Oh, you mean like the sort of reviews which allow Allopathic drugs onto the market where they kill and injure? That sort of good quality evidence? But then it is all fabricated anyway. You must quickly send a note to the US military who are using it for battlefield trauma and as an alternative to opiates.
And get yourself a list of major hospitals around the world who use it and let them know. They cannot have heard. Argument from popularity Fallacy. This is according to World Health Organization figures. It survives on donations from vested agendas, i. I suggest you avoid it and do a country by country search on iatrogenic Allopathic iatrogenic injury and death, most of it from prescribed medication and you will find I am right and you are wrong. The WHO gets one quarter of its funding from compulsory contributions of member states.
Three quarters is from voluntary contributions, which is largely from member states and charities. What is so weak about your case that you need to lie to people here? Evidence for the WHO being corrupt and surviving on donations from vested agendas would be what, exactly? The idea that medicine is the third biggest killer depends on some highly dubious assumptions.
The most obvious of these is easily illustrated by considering the case of a patient admitted to hospital with a ruptured aneurysm. This is a very poor surgical risk, and a high proportion of patients will die in surgery. However, that is actually irrelevant to your case because problems with reality-based medicine validate homeopathy in precisely the same way that plane crashes validate magic carpets.
You keep making that untruthful claim and you keep being corrected on it. The frequency with which Ernst publishes anti-homeopathy propaganda articles just makes him look desperate. He is a fundamentalist promulgator of scientism, which is the antithesis of true science. Sam, do you see a connection between putting your head in the sand and your refusal to see the truth? How about your refusal to see the truth? It has to the thousands of scientists that are paid millions by big pharma to tell lies.
Somehow though, you just know the truth. The frequency is due to Ernst actually studying homeopathy and changing his mind to follow the best available evidence.
Larry why do you think that virtually all studies that show homeopathy to work are unblinded and not properly controlled to remove the bias of the researchers? Why do you think Homeopaths never want to improve the quality of their studies to get closer to the truth, instead just running the same old uncontrolled trials over and over?
You win the prize, ros. An easily exposed lie. His university chair was mainly funded by a supporter of altmed. If he was following the money he would have found in favour of the scam. Ernst grew up with homeopathy, saw how well it worked, and chose to become a so-called expert in alternative medicine.
To his surprise, he met with professional disapproval. Being the weak ego-driven person that he is, he saw an opportunity to still come out on top. He sold his soul in exchange for the notoriety that he now receives for being the crotchety old homeopathy hater that he has become.
As with all homeopathy haters, his fundamentalist zeal is evidence of his secret self-loathing and fear that his true beliefs will be found out. Thanks for the laugh. Ernst has had to withstand the combined assault of not only homeopaths, acupuncturists, chiropractors gosh there a lot of these merchants but also their establishment followers.
To call him weak is so ludicrous it is funny. The ease with which respected outlets publish edzardernst: Not to mention not taking the German Medical Board exam which is a pre-requisite. Why are you spreading falsehoods, RGM? This is the third straightforward false allegation I have seen you make on this page.
Scientism is an excessive belief in the explanatory powers of science: Science is absolutely well placed to answer the question of whether or not homeopathy is medically effective. Homeopathy is important in science communication because it is a great example of a false belief that persists despite it being implausible at every conceivable level.
That is why it is discussed so often. It does not take deep knowledge of science to understand why homeopathy is delusional, or why belief persists despite this well established fact. It is not skeptics who are anti-homeopathy, it is reality. And even that is misleading: Realistically, the anti homeopathy activists such as this author have a minuscule sphere of influence worldwide. The National Center for Homeopathy in the U. And those critics bullying their view will be roundly criticized in the future for denying those poor people the right to have their own health choice.
Shame on you s k eptics. It spent thousand pounds on effective, safe, side-effect-free homeopathic medicines. Clearly, the NHS is spending money on conventional drugs that create diseases when it should be expanding its safe and effective homeopathic services.
The NHS is spending huge amounts of money on drugs that are the third leading cause of death in the U. The fact that drugs are both creators of disease and lethal makes a good case for their being the real waste of public money. More importantly, they are the cause of needless deaths and lives needlessly impaired by disease. They do bugger all, and taking money from people for them with the pretence that they work as medicine is a form of fraud. Drugs are prescribed for medical conditions.
Unlike homeopathic sugar pills, the drugs contain active ingredients, treat conditions and save lives. I work with people whose lives have been saved by drugs and who live pain-free because of drugs. Homeopathy, by contrast, does nothing but faith in homeopathy has cost many lives.
Your mendacity is no more than I have come to expect from people who make a living scamming the public. The NHS is being privatized, and the use of homeopathy is strong among the British people. Whatever cuts have occurred have not occurred because of lack of efficacy. Patients at those hospitals offering homeopathy are very strong in their views that it has done good things for them and that they are happy with it. They have publicly expressed those views and have asked that those services continue to be available to them.
The facts are that homeopathy is used today by more than million people making it the second most used system of medicine in the world while your conventional treatments are the third most used.
Which is probably why you failed to support it with any evidence. Even if that is a fact, what can we learn from it. Only that, after over years, it has managed a global population penetration of an amazing 7. In fact, homeopathy is used by more than million people making it the second most used system of medicine in the world today.
Conventional treatments are the third most used system of medicine, and people are turning away from it because is cures almost nothing but is the third leading cause of death in the U. Most likely that number is the same in the U.
The British people have a long history of using homeopathy and have welcomed to London the clinics of Dr. Batra and the Drs. Then why do you and the rest of the anti-science brigade rally against any attempt to have it removed from any public spending? Regardless of that though, while hospitals in the UK are a very tiny sector they do reflect the wider trend when it comes to public health spending and you have to ask yourself why that is.
Why that is is actually made very clear in any case where the decision has been made also. The reason for this is that homeopathy works, is safe and inexpensive. Conventional drugs are the third leading cause of death in the U.
Most likely the figures in the UK and around the world are similar. S added homeopathy to the national health insurance program. All the ACA says is that insurers cannot discriminate against licensed health care providers, including those who practice alternative medicine, such as naturopaths, massage therapists, chiropractic, and acupuncturists.
It is sadly true. Why are you posting comments under a pseudonym? You may deny as much as you want, but the fact is that homeopathy is losing its hold slowly but steadily in the public health service. To take on a pseudonym that could easily be mistaken for a totally different real person is deceptive. This achievement culminates a year effort involving mass vaccination against measles, mumps and rubella throughout the Americas.
If you go back to the s you will find this was not the case. Go back and look at the historical record. During the s an annual average of greater than , cases of measles and nearly deaths due to measles were reported in the United States. The record does not lie. Impact of measles in the United States. No one born before in the US has to ever get an MMR because it is presumed that they have natural immunity from having gotten the disease. The death numbers are verifiable, cia, as measles has been a reportable disease since about Actually health care workers born before who do not have either titers or confirmed evidence of disease may need to be vaccinated.
Ah, refuted antivax trope Yes, mortality declined as secondary infections became treatable with antibiotics. Morbidity remained the same. Incidence of measles declined only after vaccination became widespread. Measles can kill directly, it can also cause encephalitis leading in some cases to blindness. Measles is very contagious, but very rarely dangerous. Give NO fever reducers of any kind. Keep patient warm and comfortable in bed throughout, and well-hydrated. Keep quiet at home for two to three weeks after the day the rash appears, to avoid secondary infections.
And then enjoy the lifelong benefits. Five years ago, see first link, there were nine measles deaths in Europe out of 26, cases, a death rate of three in 10, In other words, rarely dangerous, but very beneficial. Measles is NOT beneficial. It can be disastrous. At least two of the above links are to wacko anti-vax websites. How about putting together a graphic using the study that Ivan linked to the other day?
The one about how parents of autistic children are significantly more likely to have mental illness. Hence, it was hypothesized that measles infection was associated with long-term immunesuppressionanddelayedmortality,andthatthispost-measlesmortality could be prevented by immunisation [2,3,7].
Thebelief in persistent immune suppression was stimulated by increased mortality after high-titre measles vaccination[8,9]. When the present study was planned, measles was believed to be associated with delayed excess mortality[2,3,10] and the study was initiated to identify the risk factors forsevere disease and its long-term consequences.
However,in the interim, reanalyses of other data set have made these assumptions untenable. When the analysis adjusted for immunisation status, measles infection was not associated with long-term excess mortality [10—14] nor was there any indication of persistent suppression of T-lymphocyte sub-sets [10,11]. And so, once again we see how the vaccine defenders lie. Renowned vaccine researcher Dr. Peter Aaby carried out a study in Somalia which put the lie to this false assumption.
In reality, measles depresses immune function to an unusual degree, but only for two to three weeks after the day the rash appears. Measles patients should stay quiet at home recuperating during these weeks to avoid contagion with a possibly dangerous secondary illness. But the belief that measles decreases immune function past that time period is false: This has already been rebutted.
You are just repeating the same cherry picking that was exposed the last time. Are you experiencing memory loss from all this dangerous chelation quackery? The vaccine suppresses the immune system for up to one year: I got this to come up today for some reason http: So far it is a discussion on the definition of interferon-alpha and -gamma. Perhaps the next page will turn up soon. I like how you AVs will not post a live link, even on forums where they are allowed. Using population-level data, we show that measles has a more prolonged effect on host resistance, extending over 2 to 3 years.
We find that nonmeasles infectious disease mortality in high-income countries is tightly coupled to measles incidence at this lag, in both the pre- and post-vaccine eras. By preventing measles-associated immune memory loss, vaccination protects polymicrobial herd immunity. Highlight J Infect Dis. I did that last night, did it again this morning, not taking me to the article. I did it in several different ways as well.
Can I just have a live link? You know what my first hit was when I did that? The down-regulation of alpha interferon has not been found to cause long term immunosuppression as the editors at whale-to suggest. See, for example, Immune activation at effector and gene expression levels after measles vaccination in healthy individuals: Cellular immunity to measles vaccination is not fully understood at the effector response and gene expression levels.
We enrolled 15 healthy individuals years old previously vaccinated with two doses of measles-mumps-rubella-II vaccine to characterize their cellular immunity. We detected a spectrum of lymphoproliferative response median stimulation indices of 3. Further, global gene expression was examined in five subjects from this cohort after vaccination with an additional dose of measles vaccine Attenuax, Merck to identify the genes involved in measles immunity.
Linear mixed effect models were used to identify genes significantly up or downregulated in vivo between baseline and Days 7 and 14 after measles vaccination. Measles vaccination induced upregulation of a set of 80 genes, which play a role in measles immunity, signal transduction, apoptosis, cell proliferation, and metabolic pathways. Among the 34 genes that were downregulated, only interferon-alpha is known to have a direct role in measles immunity.
This study suggests that measles vaccination leads to activation of multiple cellular mechanisms that can override the immunosuppressant effects of the measles virus and induce immunity. This caused a huge drop in the level of alpha-interferon produced by lymphocytes. Not only that, this harmful reduction in interferon production lasted for an entire year, at which time the experiment was ended.
The study showed that the measles vaccine produced a significant long-term immune suppression. Virus induced immune interferon contains both interferon-alpha and -gamma , PMID: Imagine, if you will, a child that has a mild latent infection of some sort.
Unvaccinated, if it catches measles then not only will the combination of two infections make for a very sick child, but the immuno-suppressive effects of measles will let that latent infection flare up after said child has recovered from measles. Thus if you want to capture the full horror of rampant measles infections, you not only need to look at mortality immediately caused by the measles infection, but mortality several months afterwards, and developmental effects months to years afterwards.
These are going to be most marked in Third World environments where infections are rife, nutrition is poor and general medical care is poorer than in the West. I encourage everyone to read all the vaccine info on Whale. Good evidence definition according to Johnny: Anything that favors his employers the drug industry. Good evidence — that which is statistically strong. Poor evidence is not.
You would be unable to find a single instance of my rejecting something statistically strong. You on the other hand do this pretty much every day. Now go have some more chips and coke. Please show one example of my denying statistically strong evidence. Low mortality after mild measles infection compared to uninfected children in rural west Africa. A mutated virus that can harm the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. Get your science right before you start pointing fingers, DigMed. In rare cases measles can be disastrous, but it simply is not disastrous, but beneficial, in children who are well-nourished and previously healthy, who are well-nursed bed rest, vitamin A, no fever reducers, adequate hydration, and three weeks recuperating at home after the day the rash appears.
The second is to the Dr. Alexander Langmuir article, with charts and statistics, on measles in the US in The third is to official UK government charts on measles incidence and mortality by year from on.
The fourth is an interesting article from one of my favorite sites, on how silly it is to fear measles. Those who fear contagion from vaccine sanity should by all means avoid opening it. Most measles complications are mild: Diarrhea, ear infections, conjunctivitis, bronchitis, are common, but rarely severe. SSPE is very rare, and can be caused by the vaccine as well as by the disease:.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis SSPE is a fatal complication of measles infection. We present a case of a fully vaccinated 3-year-old boy who was diagnosed with and treated for autoimmune encephalitis before arriving at a diagnosis of SSPE.
We discuss the challenges of diagnosing SSPE in developed countries. In no case is measles remotely beneficial. Not all the complications of measles are mild. Pneumonia is the most common cause of hospitalization IIRC. Ear infections can lead to deafness. Vision problems can be lifelong. Encephalitis can cause neuro-mental problems that are permanent. And then there are the lifelong complications caused by the MMR.
Autism, bowel disease, etc. I need to get the ones on how it prevents cancer, has cured cancer and eczema, and prevented many other diseases. Kubota Y, Iso H, et al. Association of measles and mumps with cardio-vascular disease: Atherosclerosis Jun 18; 2: Rosenlund H, Bergstrom A, et al. Allergic disease and atopic sensitization in children in relation to measles vaccination and measles infection Pediatrics Mar; 3: Children who contract measles are significantly less likely to develop allergies than children who are vaccinated against measles.
Same findings, different study: Shaheen SO, Aaby P, et al. Measles and atopy in Guinea-Bissau. Lancet Jun 29; Kucukosmanoglu E, Cetinkaya F, et al. Frequency of allergic diseases following measles.
Allergol Immunopathol Madr Jul-Aug; 34 4: Allergic to small talk. And, if you haven't figured it out already, nerd. Read more posts by Beth. Well wishes and prayers to Angela and all those hurting. Hopefully someone will, meanwhile I am doing a lot of gargle with salt, sipping apple cider vinegar, drinking hot mint tea with honey and homeopathy spray and pellets! I found it two weeks ago when my throat was on fire and it was better by the next day.
I made it about a month ago for a very sore throat but not strep, and found it to be very effective. Where did it go??? I know it was 1 c strongly brewed lemon tea. I think 1 tbsp honey, idk how much cider vinegar, as much cayenne as you can stand ahs some amount of a squeeze of lemon.
Not in the recipe but I always ad a clove of garlic. Really and truly thank you for this remedy. I got strep for the first time yesterday. Got off work bought all the ingredients, going home I barely had energy, could barely speak. Most of the discomfort is gone from swallowing pause , not much body pain. Gonna take the day off and heal up some more. I have been taking natural remedies for years, and a friend told me about when she was in South America, she was in a remote area and the people there used a combination of honey and raw garlic to treat ailments.
I have been using honey, raw garlic, and acv — and it does wonderfully! Last year my husband had a flu, and I was definitely exposed to it, but did not get it. I have treated strep with this combination and found that it works well. I will have to try some cayenne pepper too. I was a kid who had Strep a lot and they gave me a tonsillectomy when I was 7.
I still got strep on occasion but not as often as pre tonsillectomy. Thank you so much for publishing this, as it was instrumental to helping me try and complete this exercise. My grandma just shook her head. Instead of hot pepper though, I used Tabasco with my apple cider vinegar and hot water. And better than the zinc. Since then, every time I start to feel a cold or sore throat, I make up a batch and gargle with it. No, I am not a trained in the medical profession, I just had a wise grandmother.
Also, I appreciate the time table for use that you shared you shared — its a little more precise than my childhood memory. I love this site. Thank you Beth for this concoction.
I got strep out of the blue 3 days ago and tried everything. But then I found this site today and gargled with avc, manuka honey and cayenne. I gargled probably 3 times within a few hours…sometimes just holding my head and jaw up while letting the concoction sit on my throat. So after each gargle I soothed it by slowly sucking on a teaspsoon of manuka honey. After the first gargle I slept again and when I awoke, for the first time I felt some hope that maybe I could lick this thing.
I hope so because it was scaring me. I cant remember being in this much pain for 3 days due to strep. Thank you again for this site and sharing your home remedy for the rest of us out here without one. Maybe you could put a kit together and market it. My question is did you ever go back and ask for a blood test to make sure the strep has left your body? What we have found out this past year is you DO NOT have to have sore throat symptoms to have strep in your blood!
My husband was having joint pain in his hands. So the doctor did a run of blood tests one being strep. Everything came back normal but the strep level was ! A normal strep level is between so what does that mean? It now has gone to the joints and is attacking his body. So we ALL went to be tested my level was , my daughters was , moms , nephew she is raising !!!!
See strep once in the blood and not treated can attack the brain and at my nephews levels he was having our butts of anger and quite a bit of issues. I know antibiotics are not always the answer and I am not one of those people who run to the doctor every scratch or cough BUT do your own research!
Strep is nothing to play with. My moms foot doctor was gone for 2 weeks and when he got home he was very upset. His mom who was a ballroom dancer and in great health was having sinus issues. Her doctors treated her for a sinus infection but nothing was working. The strep was in her sinus cavity and went to her brain! He was upset that he was a doctor why didnt he think of the strep. We had to leave our pediatricians because they refused to check the blood!
When we transferred them to our doctors thats when they found the high levels in the children. SO please do your research and ask your doctor to do the simple blood test to see if this remedy did in fact kill the strep from your body. Strep is very serious.
It is caused by strep. It causes severe tics, severe mood and depression changes, it took my daughter as I knew her away. I have done more research than ever but after 6 months I almost have her back to pre disorder. Bottom line, strep is very, very dangerous. I had no idea just how dangerous. Then I looked at who you were and I realized we were acquaintances back at Prairie! My husband and I were just married and lived in Davidson. So my story is — I got sick with feverish, achy body two weeks ago, really weak… Then a sore throat and cough kicked in.
I was doing everything to get rid of it. Prescribed me antibiotics, and I didnt fill it — hense why I was here reading your post! I make it two nights ago and try to get a few hours in of taking every 30 mins…. Only super tiny spot but wow. This will be my go to for strep or sore throat. Thanks for writing this and figuring it out for the rest of us!
I remember you from our Prairie days. Hello Beth, I so am encouraged by your site. I just got diagnosed with strep with a swath almost instant reading 4 days ago.
It appears the last 3 days on my Allicin really needs much more help. Bright red with the white patches. Hoping to handle the severity of the cayenne concoction — will go to health store n grab … HELP!! I prayed the Allicin would kick it. Hi, thank you for the recipe. I am currently in early pregnancy, and really dont want to take antibiotics. My throat has gotten worse. I dont know if it is strep but wanted to try this.
Do i gargle 1 sip every minutes or the whole cup every minutes? Soups and liquids hurt me more as I think they seep into any pus sores that are in the throat. And like my thick saliva, soups can be too thick to go down quickly, whereas pasta in olive oil just slips right down!
I added some chopped up wafer thin ham just for a treat! Also green tea with some manuka honey stirred in, nothing beats manuka honey for the healing process of any disease or illness, and is quite soothing if you can get some liquids down into you. Thank you so much for posting this, Beth! It is Midnight and I am up with the most intense throat ache I have ever had. I rarely even sneeze, so this is a shocker. Tonight I have tried every other remedy to no avail, and all the natural sites give the same honey and lemon advice, but I am so relieved to have come across this!
I am on dose number 2 and believing with all my heart this will get me through the night after a couple more gargles. I got it bad? For the last month or so I have been struggling with my throat aswell and just went on hoping it would cure itself. Also about two weeks prior going out for sushi, i found the following day that all the washabi and ginger almost cured me too.
So last night after an injection , some new meds, again antibiotics I started using all the info on home made remedies and pro biotics, from caynne pepper , apple cider vinegar, plain yogurt, I started using them inbetween. My best experiance so far and im getting better is the apple cider vinegar and salt with warm water, used as a rinse and gargle. Tommorrow morning ill prepare some garlic to add to my wonderfull mixture. Thanks for your help in creating this page, i thought it is wonderfull that people create ways to assist people in medical problems.
Good for you for taking control of your health. I am grad student and by not having health insurance, along with not wanting to take an antibiotic to avoid other problems I was looking for another way to treat the symptoms of strep throat.
Thankfully, I came across your site and had nothing to lose waking up with a sore throat that felt like knives in my throat. Upon so many gargles and an acetaminophen, my throat was well enough to sing within less than 24 hours Thank you. I had at least 3 white spots on my tonsil ewwww, but it has cleared mostly and swelling has gone down.
I will monitor it though. I developed a cough, then ear clogging, and hoarseness. Praise to God and this blessed natural recipe. Being sick sucks, but when you heal, makes you most grateful for the times of health.
Although I can see how Cayenne could kill bacteria, it seems like Cayenne could also burn the back of your throat if you use too much it could leave a residue that would hurt the already irritated tissue?. Just like The natural oil from peppers can burn the inside of the stomach, nasal lining or even the touch of your finger. If you are concerned about cayenne pepper irritating your throat you can swallow it in capsule form.
Buy organic non- GMO a health food store or online. I make my own and keep it on hand for all kinds of illnesses, ie: Guys, I tried this gargle and it did not work for me. The doctor said my glands looked irritated. I do not recommend for strep. My throat felt way more irritated after 3 rounds of the pepper gargle. It was definitely worse after. I will try anything to avoid pharmaceuticals. You should have then switched to salt water gargle.
I am keeping this handy for the future. I was told by my doctor DO that they no longer treat strep with antibiotics because 1. The risk of a bad reaction to the antibiotics is times more likely than strep turning into something more serious. Strep is extremely dangerous and can be catastrophic if not treated properly! Especially in our youth who are going unrecognized and being labeled as mentally ill.
If you have children who end up getting strep, it is very very important to treat them with the proper medications, as this can turn into scarlet fever in young children. It happened to me when I was around 6. In my case, i get strep throat every time i get sick without fail. I have gone along time without going to the doctor and it never healed itself. In fact, ive waited so long that i couldnt walk literally.
The swelling was that bad. It has to be treated. One way or the other. I understand from others that you are more susceptible with tonsils. You can also just put a little in cup of warm broth and sip on it throughout the day.
Big Thanks to god baalam my name is Pamela Jones. I am from United States i am here to spread the entire work of a real. You can contact him via email: I am the Lord your God. I use essential oils for everything, never take over the counter stuff and try to avoid prescriptions whenever possible.
I came down with a sore throat that kept getting worse and was treating it with oils. It was so swollen and painful after 3 days that I looked for more remedies and found this one. I did it the first night every min for hours and went to bed. It did surprisingly feel good after doing and provide some short lasting about 15 min relief. The next day I brewed another cup and did it in the morning for about 3 hours and the swelling was getting worse and more painful throughout the day.
That night I ended up going to the doctor and because of the bullfrog swelling, inability to open my mouth, talk, or eat, they gave me prednisone which almost immediately started to reduce the swelling and I feel SO much better. Best to you all! Strep throat is the worst!
I get strep throat realy BAD religously every year. I came across your page and thought I would try it. I already had antibiotics but my symptoms are ALWAYS severe and last several days to a week even while on antibiotics. So, the first day on antibiotics I also did your cayenne and acv remedy. I felt soooo much better within hours!!! Thank you so much for this. Hopefully next time I have strep, I can forgo the antibiotics completely. Seriously a few hours and I felt halfway normal!!! So glad you felt better so quickly.
This is a great remedy for sore throat. I must caution people about treating strep with it instead of taking antibiotics, though especially children-teens. Just tossing that out there. Thanks for your input! I can second the antibiotics in these cases, having personal experience.
I get strep at the very least once a year. A few weeks later I developed a rash. I had a high fever, my skin, head to toe, was covered in what felt like itchy sandpaper, and I was very sick. I went on to develop Rheumatic fever! It does go dormant and morphs. I, personally, would highly recommend the home remedies to alleviate the symptoms in conjunction with a course of meds. I know this is not a new post, but has some pretty recent responses.
That has even been a topic of made-for-tv movies. I learned it in nursing school also, and was told that by pediatricians when raising my own over 30 yrs ago. This one is the initial one I found: This is because honey can, very occasionally, contain a spore of a bacterium called clostridium botulinum. This can cause a rare form of food poisoning botulism in babies. Is it safe to give my baby honey? You mis-read what I wrote. The comment was about an alleged link between honey and SIDS.
I so wanted this to work. My throat feels like razor blades are in it. Glad it worked for you. This feeling is awful!
I have a question. When you gargle every 15 minutes, are u suppose to gargle the entire cup of tea or just like 5 gargles per every 15 minutes? Beth, I really enjoyed your site and find that you have many interesting and useful stories. I myself and family do not use antibiotics much at all, we use alternate healing for the most part. As a nurse I do believe there is a time for modern medicine also, that being said….
A few yrs ago the Dr I worked for and I went to a class for practices caring to pregnant mothers, infants and toddlers. They spoke on the dangers of honey in any form during pregnancy and up to the first three years of life.
There seems to be some coalition between homey and homey products and sudden infant death syndrome even when consumed by mother while caring her unborn child. Otherwise your remedy is pretty dead on to what we use at our house but we add tumeric and anise also to our hot tea. I just wanted to share this info with you as it is hard to see a sids baby brought into my ER.
Sandy, thanks for your comment. I was skeptical, but this works amazingly. Have never tried this 2. Are brainwashed by your medical school. Have an ego larger than your brain. All of the above. I have a similar recipe where i just use honey, hot sauce, and minced garlic. It is a thick mixture and I hold it in my mouth as long as i can. Then and I know this is going to sound weird I let it slide down my throat so that the mixture can touch the back of my throat as long as possible.
So I would say that yes you can drink this but gargle with it before hand. This is a miracle. It really works — I use sage tea for mine and it really only takes 24 hours for the throat pain to disappear gargling quite often.
I have had strep so many times and I never ask for antibiotics anymore because of this concoction. I just got diagnosed with strep yesterday and started with this remedy today. I feel so much better already. The feeling of razor blades in my throat has diminished greatly. I HATE taking antibiotics. So thankful I found this site! I forgot to say that I added ginger, coconut oil and turmeric to mine. Then blended it all in my nutribullet.
I realize this article is old. But here I am again with strep throat. I have suffered from strep my entire life- multiple times a year I get it.
And multiple times a year I get put on an antibiotic- sure the strep goes away, but usually 4 months later it comes back for me.
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